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Lucasoato 12 minutes ago [-]
Ok, maybe this question is a bit silly, but could it possibly be that Elon is doing this to steal Anthropic models secrets and using them to improve Grok?
aurareturn 10 minutes ago [-]
No. Model weights are encrypted. Elon is doing this because Anthropic is desperate for compute, SpaceX needs to juice up its balance sheet before IPO, and xAI model team isn't competitive.
urams 9 hours ago [-]
Very possible Elon is doing this to make give Anthropic better chances against OAI while he attempts to reshape xAI.
Also possible he sees infra as the future of xAI if he really believes in the value of space compute.
Hard to see this any of this as anything other than a bearish sign for Grok though.
tristanj 6 hours ago [-]
That's very doubtful given recent news that Colossus is running at 11% capacity and has hundreds of thousands of idle GPUs. xAI acquired too many GPUs and currently doesn't have enough customers to use them. That's why they are making compute deals with Anthropic and Cursor.
xAI is bleeding money and this compute deal with Anthropic will pay for all of xAI's capex ($25 billion) in 2 years.
shenberg 36 minutes ago [-]
11% MFU does not mean 89% of GPUs are idle, it means that they're using the GPUs ineffectively.
petesergeant 13 minutes ago [-]
> will pay for all of xAI's capex ($25 billion) in 2 years
This is a confusing framing; you pay down capex with profit not revenue, and there is presumably a high opex cost.
jameson 8 hours ago [-]
Right, also Anthropic has been having difficult time getting more GPUs
skywhopper 43 minutes ago [-]
He believes in the value of the idea of “space compute” for attracting investors to SpaceX. But the existence of the idea of “space compute” as a better way to deploy datacenters (along with everything else Musk has claimed in the past decade) should give everyone pause as to the plausibility of literally everything else he says.
fillskills 8 hours ago [-]
We could see the first company vertically integrated from etching to chip to data center
AlotOfReading 7 hours ago [-]
That's Intel. Probably IBM too, though they've been doing mass manufacturing with TSMC (and GloFo before) for years instead of their fabs. I wouldn't be surprised if HP did similar things back in the 80s.
jacobrast 8 hours ago [-]
What do you mean by etching? Google does also it's own chip design with TPUs, data centers, and models but afaik only TSMC Intel and Samsung do the actual semiconductor fabrication
Here's a probably stupid question - if someone were unbounded by ethics and conceivably had enough power and connections to power to shield themselves from many consequences of their actions - and that person owned these DCs, could they in theory observe all the streams of tokens coming in and out of these models, and even exfiltrate copies of these models wholesale to have their own teams do what they will with them in the pursuit of building their own competitive models?
Or is there something fundamental in the way these models get deployed (encryption or something or than legal contracts?) at this scale that prohibits the owners of the infra from gaining this level of insight / access?
tristanj 8 hours ago [-]
1) The situation you described would be covered under the contract between Anthropic and xAI, and that any violation of that would be subject to financial penalties and legal proceedings. The US has a robust corporate legal system, and disputes do get resolved through the court system, although in a slow and costly manner.
The contract can stipulate a penalty at a high enough amount to discourage this behavior.
2) Output from models & intra-datacenter communications can be encrypted if customers truly cared.
3) There is no reason do this, because there are far better ways to exfiltrate data from Anthropic models. Chinese companies are already doing this at an industrial scale where they are reselling Claude tokens for 10-20% of the cost while retaining the data to train their own models. https://www.chinatalk.media/p/how-to-buy-cheap-claude-tokens...
If we look at Deepseek V4-pro, created by Deepseek who Anthropic formally accused of harvesting Claude tokens at scale, it performs the same as Claude did 6 months prior.
seydor 3 hours ago [-]
I guess there's a reason why those Chinese companies are in china
Traster 33 minutes ago [-]
It's already in the public domain (thanks to the OpenAI trial) that Grok distilled OpenAIs models. Listening to the data going into the models in the data centre would be very similar thing. There's some downsides (you're passively listening, not controlling the queries), and some upsides (way more data). But it only ever gets you to some percentage of the existing production model. It doesn't get you what Musk wants - an AI company capable of designing and deploying leading edge models. It gets you to fast follower status.
giancarlostoro 2 hours ago [-]
You could, but Grok is pretty high up there, it might not be "#1" but its definitely up there with the giants, people seem to overlook it. Gemini has a similar problem, it was #1 once, and it seems like Google isn't hell bent on chasing #1 they just want to keep iterating over time, they know they just need it to be "good enough" and they'll keep having repeat customers.
If Elon REALLY wanted to do anything like that he would be better off poaching talent from competitors, less legal hell to go through.
petesergeant 34 seconds ago [-]
If I was training a top-tier model, having a competitors’ weights feels like it would be an excellent refining tool. As a user I find cross-model iteration to be a huge power-tool, and presumably the boffins can zero in on areas of relative strength and weakness and work out which area they want massive amounts of synthetic data from.
rdgthree 5 hours ago [-]
xAI had a lot of negotiating power here because Anthropic had ~0 comparable options and ultimately desperately needed the compute now. So, it wouldn't surprise me if data sharing was an explicit part of the agreement
There's accusations that the Chinese labs have done essentially that to OpenAI and Anthropic and exfiltrated their models without having DC access, so if you had DC access, yes, you could do that. If you had DC access though you could just copy the model onto an SSD.
zozbot234 1 hours ago [-]
The Chinese labs have been accused of training on elicited chat logs on a massive scale in violation of ToS. That's possibly a real concern, but it's nowhere close to "exfiltrating" the model or even roughly matching its behavior.
7 hours ago [-]
gaze 9 hours ago [-]
I think that's the datacenter with the gas turbine generators that operate without permits because they're "portable." Data centers have tremendous externalities but colossus is a particularly nasty offender, and not just due its size.
The newer location is about 3 miles southwest of the Memphis Airport (MEM), one of the world’s largest cargo airports and the center of FedEx operations (500 take-off and landings per day most concentrated in a 6 h FedEx window with lots of engines running on ramps and that produces about 2000 tons of NOx per year).
I live about 18 miles downwind of the new Colossus sites, the airport, and lots of truck logistics sites, and a large refinery.
I definitely will be getting 2x exposure to ozone and particulates from both Colossi when they are running full bore. Plus an extra dose of ultrafine particulate with my morning fresh air.
Yes, wouldn’t it be nice to be in Nashville instead with HCA, Oracle, many insurance and financial institutions, and the joy of country music.
As an avid Opus user I am in an ethical Nimby bind. We do need almost any investments we can get in Shelby County TN. I’ll take Anthropic in preference to Grok NOx. And it will be my NOx.
bob1029 3 hours ago [-]
The biggest issue with the interim onsite generation is the lack of meaningful stack height on the generating units.
Airplanes by virtue of their mode of operation stay out of the unhappy regime most of the time. Also, engines at/near idle produde orders of magnitude less emissions. Those aeroderivative generators are running at full capacity 24/7.
Dumping exhaust at ground level continuously is probably much worse than the airport. Even if it's a FedEx world hub.
vasco 2 hours ago [-]
> I’ll take Anthropic in preference to Grok NOx
It's the same datacenter? Ran by the same people?
hawaiianbrah 2 hours ago [-]
I think that was the joke.
Melatonic 2 hours ago [-]
Hey Siri - can you please order this guy a spare set of lungs ?
monster_truck 6 hours ago [-]
Your math is way wrong. The airport is and will be far, far worse. You didn't even mention all of the lead
robwwilliams 4 hours ago [-]
What was the specific mathematical or factual error? It is not theoretical for me.
schmookeeg 4 hours ago [-]
there is no lead in jet fuel.
i would expect close to no 100LL burning planes use MEM.
Kelteseth 1 hours ago [-]
So for a guy that literally has a company that produces batteries and solar panels, choose to use gas turbines. So much for saving the planet.
renticulous 1 hours ago [-]
He is building the skill tree in such a way that he is prioritising speed rather than environment.
bvcp 35 minutes ago [-]
this is why ai in space will win
hemul3n 8 hours ago [-]
I dug into this topic in some detail on my blog and it's both enraging and depressing.
> Jordan is suspiciously lurching to the extremely high energy end of the light spectrum when we know that the low energy end (comparable to infrasound) doesn’t have negative impacts on us if we can’t detect its presence.
Masley spouts the falsifiable propaganda that any photon (light/emf) below ionizing radiation energy can only cause “heat” and can have no other possible harm effects.
Many science-minded people (though more accurately in this case, billiard-world materialists) have become quite militant defenders of this idea (ostensibly fighting off the hoardes of tinfoil hatters and quantum aquarians sensitive to 5g).
This point is very plausible military industrial propaganda. There were numerous studies with evidence (starting from the 60s) such as - non ionizing radiation (eg hv powerlines) might cause lots of cancer, and it’s weaponized (sub-thermal) usage can microwave the brains of enemy spies. THOSE studies have come out in declassified and leaked docs.
Now we have several plausible and serious theories of mechanism for low-f light disrupting biology that lean into quantum biology. While the iceberg of quantum biology understanding is still in its early decades, the mounting downstream evidence of health and medical issues are established public knowledge.
HDThoreaun 6 hours ago [-]
I dont know, Id say the enraging thing is that the government is so incompetent and unable to expand electricity supply that datacenters are forced into using loopholes to get power the only way they can.
hvb2 3 hours ago [-]
> Id say the enraging thing is that the government is so incompetent and unable to expand electricity supply
So let's say you're a homebuilder, if I tell you I want a new home and I want to live there tomorrow, you can all of a sudden build it in a day, right?
Electricity use is skyrocketing for various reasons, these datacenters being one of them. There are a lot of countries struggling to keep up with demand. So incompetence? No, probably more like supply lagging demand.
Or ASML and Nvidia and all also are incompetent, because they didn't see demand coming....
ZeroGravitas 58 minutes ago [-]
In the early days of this the AI companies were asking for massive new energy supplies but also refusing to sign contracts to pay for it over the decades of its life.
They're basically attempting to game the system, politically and economically, to put as much of the cost on taxpayers and ratepayers as they can. This naturally slows things down.
fragmede 3 hours ago [-]
If only there was some sort of planning, by a central authority!
skywhopper 35 minutes ago [-]
These are the same companies and individuals who are actively working to destroy functional government, and are happily looting the US treasury rather than let it be spent on things such as encouraging more energy production.
stronglikedan 7 hours ago [-]
Seems like selc's time would be better spent trying to close the loophole that allows for unpermitted turbine generators instead of going after one company for doing what they were allowed to do when they did it.
2 hours ago [-]
georgemcbay 8 hours ago [-]
Yup, and now Anthropic is complicit in the environmental damage and health problems for local residents that these data centers are causing.
But hey, number must go up, right?
idle_zealot 8 hours ago [-]
Have you considered that the march of progress requires human blood to grease the gears and mulched skulls to pave the (highly efficient) road? Really, when you take into account all of the future lives this will improve and save it's difficult to claim any cost now is too high. Would you stand in their way and delay the day that Mythos cures cancer?
I wonder what percentage of GDP expenditure will give us SkyNet.
Undoubtedly, it will find cures to all cancers… The ARR and stock appreciation will be amazing. Except the cures will be found long after it has wiped out all humans.
tadfisher 4 hours ago [-]
Wiping out all humans _is_ the cure.
thelastgallon 8 hours ago [-]
Not Anthropic, but Sam Altman - AI will solve climate change and cure all diseases.
coliveira 4 hours ago [-]
AI is the new religion, and one needs to be stupid to believe it.
ChicknNuggt 3 hours ago [-]
Already so many people are treating it as a higher being, believing whatever that comes out of it
fragmede 3 hours ago [-]
That implies you don't need to be stupid to believe the other ones.
LogicFailsMe 8 hours ago [-]
I'm not saying human blood and mulched skulls are a renewable source of power, I'm just saying. Or maybe they can partner with SoulCycle to power computation with 24/7 spin classes?
kennywinker 8 hours ago [-]
And people called the matrix’s human batteries far-fetched.
ericd 7 hours ago [-]
Always felt like it would've made more sense if it was using part of the peoples' brains to do their computation, as super energy efficient computers.
tadfisher 4 hours ago [-]
I believe that was in the original script, and rewritten after some exec didn't understand how brains could be computers.
GuB-42 15 minutes ago [-]
If it was indeed the original script, the reason they changed to batteries is maybe not because "some exec" is an idiot, but because it worked better from a storytelling perspective.
Even if treating people as batteries doesn't make much sense as we are pretty terrible power plants, the message is clear and impactful. It is common for movies to oversimplify things, because they want to avoid having the viewer from being distracted from the main plot. It is tricky, as being too obviously wrong can breaks the immersion. I think the people = batteries analogy is a good compromise. Brains = computers, while technically more plausible would add a layer of complexity that could be a bit too much for a 2h action movie.
louiereederson 8 hours ago [-]
Per sanguinem ad astra
Johnny_Bonk 8 hours ago [-]
I loled
morkalork 8 hours ago [-]
When do we start building pyramids and doing the Sardaukar blood letting ritual?
hugh-avherald 8 hours ago [-]
When the 10-year yield hits 6%. Basic macroeconomics.
broknbottle 8 hours ago [-]
Some of you may die, but it’s a sacrifice that I am willing to make.
Nition 8 hours ago [-]
A superintelligent AI will be safe though, because it learnt its morality from us.
ChicknNuggt 3 hours ago [-]
Doesnt AI learning its morality from humans makes it unsafe, I mean just look at some cases, humans dont exactly always have good morals
shimman 8 hours ago [-]
Do you think Boris cares about people getting cancer and dying from these data centers? No, he cares about becoming rich as fuck.
coliveira 4 hours ago [-]
This is simply called disruption. They really don't care.
jquery 7 hours ago [-]
Given how much our EPA has been gutted by the current administration, I don’t think relief is very likely.
SilverElfin 3 hours ago [-]
So much for Dario’s ethics. He happily partners with Elon. He seems like just another power hungry monopoly seeking liar.
chrisldgk 1 hours ago [-]
That’s because he is. None of these people are your friends and all of them will fuck you over if it means getting richer and more powerful.
znpy 1 hours ago [-]
> So much for Dario’s ethics. He happily partners with Elon. He seems like just another power hungry monopoly seeking liar.
Dario has been glorified unnecessarily. He's just like all the other people in the space: not good, not bad.
And keep in mind that when Dario was opposing AI usage by the US State he wasn't really opposing, he was just saying "not yet".
nelox 6 hours ago [-]
xAI’s turbines produce meaningful local/regional pollution (especially NOx in a vulnerable area) but represent a rounding error nationally and globally.
palmotea 3 hours ago [-]
> xAI’s turbines produce meaningful local/regional pollution (especially NOx in a vulnerable area) but represent a rounding error nationally and globally.
If you shoot someone in the face, it will produce a meaningful increase in local/regional murder, but represent a rounding error nationally and globally.
techpression 2 hours ago [-]
Gave me a chuckle on my commute, thanks!
cududa 1 hours ago [-]
It doesn’t matter if people have to suddenly live by gas turbines that run 24/7 because why again? Can you repeat that last part back to me but say it a little dumber for me?
throwaw12 1 hours ago [-]
multiply rounding errors by thousands and you get somewhat meaningful impact. you are underestimating the scale of independently small pollutions
glaslong 2 hours ago [-]
farting in a crowded elevator because the people outside the elevator won't even notice
redox99 8 hours ago [-]
What's the tremendous externality of gas generators? People heat their own homes with natural gas and it's no big deal. How can a datacenter that is miles away be worse than that?
coliveira 4 hours ago [-]
How can something that is a million times bigger than your home be any different, right?
8 hours ago [-]
jLaForest 8 hours ago [-]
The gas furnace in my basement don't have a massive jet turbine emiting high frequency noise
alex_duf 2 hours ago [-]
It's the low frequencies that's more of an issue apparently. Benn Jordan has a great series of videos about it, including one on Colossus
redox99 7 hours ago [-]
I wouldn't call noise pollution a "tremendous externality". The gas turbines should just be placed far enough from where people live.
ben_w 2 hours ago [-]
Should, but in fact are too close.
alienreborn 9 hours ago [-]
Why is xAI giving up their advantage? Is this a signal that their frontier model improvements are plateauing and decided there is no value in hoarding all their compute?
dktp 8 hours ago [-]
I would guess it's purely because Grok isn't nearly in-demand enough to produce meaningful revenue. And they want to juice the numbers for IPO
And I'm sure it's a bonus point for Musk that it goes to OpenAI's most relevant competitor
SoKamil 9 hours ago [-]
As weird as it seems I think this is Musk’s best shot at winning over Altman. He has personal vendetta.
ifwinterco 1 hours ago [-]
xAI have (with some questionable ethics) managed to actually build a data centre, so they have a ton of compute but not much inference demand for their model which is second-tier.
Everyone else trying to build data centres is really struggling (turns out building physical things is not as easy as writing code, who knew).
So Anthropic have the model but they're compute starved because everyone else they've signed agreements with still mostly have piles of dirt and the GPUs are still in Nvidia's warehouse somewhere.
It's a bit of a win-win: xAI's financial numbers will be massively improved by the revenue using otherwise useless data centre capacity, Anthropic get the compute they desperately need albeit probably paying through the nose for it
tw04 9 hours ago [-]
What advantage? Has there ever been any indication they’re leading in any segment? Sure Elon has thrown a bunch of money at hardware, but to what end?
And frankly as bad as Altman is from a: if AI is really going to disrupt humanity do I want this guy in charge? Elon is 10x worse. So why would the best and the brightest ever work for him?
abraxas 8 hours ago [-]
No other LLM has made as much child porn as grok so there is that...
eightysixfour 9 hours ago [-]
In a compute starved world, big ass data centers are an advantage.
loktarogar 8 hours ago [-]
yes, but it's only advantage if one is compute-strained and the other isn't. if they both have lots then there's no advantage. if one doesn't fully utilise their compute then it's not an advantage either
eightysixfour 8 hours ago [-]
Well, it appears all their competitors are compute starved so…
8note 8 hours ago [-]
can you elucidate what that advantage is, that isnt renting it out for the highest price to somebody that really needs it?
eightysixfour 8 hours ago [-]
Well, other than your ability to turn that into cash by renting it out for the highest price to someone who needs it, you can promise prospective employees that are supposed to use that infra to train models that they won’t be compute starved.
You can kick off more model training runs and experiments than your competitors.
You can kick off a $1-2t IPO claiming you are going to capture a large portion of the largest TAM the world has ever seen.
sumeno 8 hours ago [-]
They have neither the most resources nor the best models. They are mediocre at everything except the CSAM generation market, they've got that one cornered
root_axis 8 hours ago [-]
Training a model that is larger than your competitor's.
Rover222 8 hours ago [-]
The datacenter advantage, obviously
SilverElfin 3 hours ago [-]
Elon got rid of most of the core xAI researchers recently. It looked like firings and he said something like Grok needs to be rewritten because it was fundamentally built in a bad way. My guess - Grok was not one of the top two models and had no traction beyond users on Twitter - so investing in it did not make sense. Or maybe he needs time to build a new team and rebuild Grok, and while he’s doing that, he needs revenue to make up for all the GPUs they bought.
Either way, I doubt he has any ‘real’ advantage in this game. It’s OpenAI and Anthropic, and then everyone else including the open weight models.
Computer0 8 hours ago [-]
When did xAI have an advantage?
aurareturn 4 hours ago [-]
Advantage in training compute.
guluarte 8 hours ago [-]
I think they overestimated the demand for Grok, which is mostly useless, and now they have too much compute on hand.
bwfan123 7 hours ago [-]
I see this as a huge warning sign. If a frontier ai lab is in this position of renting their own capacity, imagine how much overcapacity there is in the system.
Outside of VC money, and circular financing, the only external money coming into ai are into open-ai, and anthropic via their subscriptions and APIs.
runako 4 hours ago [-]
> a frontier ai lab
Wait, do people consider xAI a frontier AI lab?
londons_explore 3 hours ago [-]
They were briefly SOTA on some benchmarks, although there were suggestions there might have been some massaging of the results since real world usage showed lackluster performance compared to the benchmarks.
aurareturn 12 hours ago [-]
More signs that xAI might be giving up on the AGI race. xAI let Cursor train a model on Colossus 2, gave the entire Colossus1 to Anthropic, and is now giving compute in Colossus2 to Anthropic as well.
tristanj 8 hours ago [-]
Bad read on the situation. xAI has too much compute and not enough customers using it. They have around half a million GPUs, some of which are stolen from Tesla, running at 11% utilization. xAI predicted more people would be using Grok, but Grok is not a SOTA model & users primarily want to use SOTA models. They have excess capacity and it makes sense to rent out GPUs to other customers while they improve their models.
kibibu 6 hours ago [-]
Grok is also tuned to align with Musk's personal beliefs. I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.
akimbostrawman 2 hours ago [-]
Opposed to all other models being the bastion of objectivity? Must be truly vindicating to have to hear other peoles opinions after decades in the silicon valley bubble.
blizarre 1 hours ago [-]
As a non-US AI user I do not particularly like using a US model following the recent political events, but I specifically do not want to use a model made by an ex-member of the current administration.
ruszki 58 minutes ago [-]
There is a difference between when somebody openly instructs their model to infer disproven lies vs who doesn’t do this. And it’s quite tiring that this is even a question because of politics.
As somebody from Hungary: the biggest impact of my mood was that this kind of thinking went back with the collapse of far right there to where it belongs: to a deep hole which is not in front of normal people. Average people suddenly don’t ask illogical questions or answer stupid things because there is nobody who would tell them that they need to think stupidly, there is nobody who tell them what stupid thing they should think that week. It’s marvelous when you get the proof that the whole “stupid thinking” is completely controlled from above.
2 hours ago [-]
jstummbillig 1 hours ago [-]
Why are they selling compute instead of using it to build that SOTA model?
aurareturn 4 hours ago [-]
It is a race that has a flywheel effect.
Once xAI training team “fix” their model, where will Anthropic be then?
coliveira 4 hours ago [-]
It's not stolen if it was taken from Tesla, investors already agreed that Elon can do anything he pleases with their money.
CSMastermind 3 hours ago [-]
More people should try Grok. I don't use it for coding but it's replaced a lot of my ChatGPT usage. Definitely more perferred model for quick questions or easy answers.
giancarlostoro 2 hours ago [-]
One thing I do like about Grok is that it makes it stupid easy to see what its referencing, and gives you the links to those resources. Which most models sometimes either don't bother, or don't do much of a good job of doing. It's not the top model, but it is definitely high up there, people's blind rage for anything Elon Musk is the only reason most people don't realize how capable it is unfortunately. Grok is not exclusively made by Elon Musk, there's definitely other engineers working day and night on it.
hackinthebochs 1 hours ago [-]
For conversational or general knowledge questions I also much prefer Grok. Musk's vanity aside, it is much less censored than the other frontier models.
cma 2 hours ago [-]
What's the blind rage, he's totally out in the open.
papascrubs 10 hours ago [-]
Elon lost his lawsuit with openAI and knows xAI isn't on the same trajectory. Might as well try to win the bet and flip off Sam by supporting the best competition. Also they are getting a head start on AI as a commodity. I'm sure there's plenty of money to be made for those that can leverage their capital to essentially rent capacity right now. If he's not making enough off of grok, might as well cover their expenses.
paxys 9 hours ago [-]
It was kinda obvious when SpaceX "acquired" it. Elon rewarded xAI investors/prevented lawsuits by giving them SpaceX equity, and that was that.
gen220 4 hours ago [-]
FWIW, SpaceX (parent company of xAI) has an option to acquire Cursor for $60B that expires 7 days after their imminent IPO.
derwiki 3 hours ago [-]
Do people still use Cursor? My company’s leadership has been clear that Cursor was cool for a hot minute but you Should Not be using it anymore
DeathArrow 4 hours ago [-]
xAI might acquire Cursor. They are in the process of training new coding models and probably a new Grok.
Until they finish training, it makes sense to rent the excess capacity.
amazingamazing 9 hours ago [-]
I don't see a scenario where it really makes sense to be a frontier lab long term. Eventually model quality will plateau then you distill and get 90% for 10% or less cost.
energy123 25 minutes ago [-]
Plateau on a saturated benchmark where an asymptote to 100% is mathematically baked in?
Or plateau as in it won't solve any Millennium Prize problems within the next decade?
hungryhobbit 9 hours ago [-]
General AI is that scenario. The investor dream is that their horse hits general AI first, patents it (or otherwise somehow stops the competition from hitting it), and then reaps the massive benefits.
I'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but I genuinely believe a big percentage of AI investment revolves around that (or similar) scenarios.
baq 3 hours ago [-]
Opus and GPT are so different there’s room for both and I wouldn’t be ignoring Gemini even if it isn’t ahem great at coding, since it’s quite obviously very good otherwise.
In the times before you also would rather have very smart people working together instead of one very smart dude alone even if he had an identical twin.
olmo23 2 hours ago [-]
My go-to usecase for Gemini is summarizing Youtube tech-influencers.
ReptileMan 1 hours ago [-]
How do you do it?
twoodfin 9 hours ago [-]
Over the past 6 months, Anthropic has made more waves as a product company than a frontier lab.
amazingamazing 9 hours ago [-]
Cant wait to see their books once they IPO
usef- 6 hours ago [-]
This might come down to when you expect plateau to happen. You could have said similar about transistor density many decades ago.
(I'm not denying it could happen next year for all we know. But we simply don't know, and from what I hear from researchers the breadth of ideas we've tried are still small)
I use Claude daily but I do not want that my spend is going towards Elon.
giancarlostoro 2 hours ago [-]
Might want to check the Anthropic parking lot, this might have already been happening.
ramon156 3 hours ago [-]
How come a company like Anthropic has invested in photonic computing? If it's good enough for Boeing, I'd assume they would at least invest in it. qc-LPU100 seems worth it for some matrix mult, if it can be proven its O(n) (at least less than O(n^3).
ChicagoDave 3 hours ago [-]
Sigh.
I’d hoped Anthropic would steer clear of blatantly unethical practices but here they go in bed with that guy and his horribly damaging data center.
sunaookami 1 hours ago [-]
Anthropic works with Palantir, they are all but "ethical" lol.
oezi 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, quite a bad reputation hit for Anthropic to get in bed with Musk. Tesla lost half its marketshare in Europe because Elon is meddling in our democracy, is promoting right wing populist parties and supporting Trump in general.
burnerRhodov3 4 minutes ago [-]
Europe has a hugely shrinking demographic, and is actively decoupling from the United States. There's almost no innovation and you are making the mistake of getting in bed with China and constantly suing our tech companies.
Europe needs to focus more on Europe and less US politics.
MagicMoonlight 1 hours ago [-]
No, they’ve lost market share because they haven’t released a new product in years. Meanwhile China is releasing hundreds of excellent models into the European market which are better than Tesla’s.
oezi 1 hours ago [-]
That adds to it. But you are underestimating how much Europeans were/are shocked by Elon's Nazi salute and the DOGE fallout.
ChicagoDave 15 minutes ago [-]
Pretty sure Americans hate him too. You can see Tesla new car staging lots full and the cars never move. They try to hide the Cybertruck lots.
momo26 5 hours ago [-]
Does an expansion of computing power on this scale imply that computing capital is displacing model architecture as the true moat in AI competition?
zitterbewegung 4 hours ago [-]
Seems like either Grok is being shut down or it will be "powered by anthropic" soon.
brookst 4 hours ago [-]
Grok’s whole thing is being irresponsible and edgy. Can’t s ee Anthropic going for that, can’t see Grok’s customer base accepting an AI that refuses to do nonconsensual porn.
londons_explore 3 hours ago [-]
Model fine-tunes to change the 'edgy' tone are very cheap and easy to do.
Grok could easily be powered by Claude in just a few weeks engineering time.
labrador 8 hours ago [-]
Musk said Anthropic Claude was woke DEI until he said it wasn't. It must be hard for Musk fans to keep up.
nelox 6 hours ago [-]
I predict SpaceX will subsume Anthropic at some point.
Too bad Enron is still not around. They'd have some real fun with today's electrical markets.
9 hours ago [-]
zenai666 2 hours ago [-]
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varalaakshay 7 hours ago [-]
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fasbg1 9 hours ago [-]
I though Claude is too woke. Musk has posted that at least 50 times in the last year.
But booking outrageous rental fees as fake AI revenue ahead of the SpaceX IPO apparently takes precedence.
energy123 16 minutes ago [-]
He posted that AI will kill everyone, then stopped posting that when he started his own AI company.
He tried to steal the OpenAI charity, then started complaining about someone else stealing the OpenAI charity when he failed to do it.
He attacks European democracies about free speech, but is a compliant little censor for Turkey, India and other non-European countries.
0xy 9 hours ago [-]
Anthropic is paying real cash, how is it fake revenue?
123aad 9 hours ago [-]
Fake __AI__ revenue. Maybe Hetzner should build Colossus4, rent it out and book it as AI revenue instead of hardware rental revenue and get a P/E of 100.
nikcub 9 hours ago [-]
Anthropic this quarter will have revenue of $10.9B, up from $4.8B last quarter[0]. They're paying SpaceX $1.25B per month for compute[1] - which is more than what SpaceX earn on space. SpaceX spent about $30-40B in capex on Colossus 1 & 2.
This is all real revenue, real spend, real usage.
Hetzner just aren't at this scale. Not even close. If they wanted to get into this business - first, they're late. Second, it's at a scale of ~10x of their total lifetime datacenter buildout. Third, they'd need to change their business to being one that is debt fronted.
xAI have proven out that being able to deploy compute is a very viable business (and difficult to pull off)
At some point AI cynicism clashes with reality, it must be exhausting maintaining it.
Anthropic’s revenue is computed different from OpenAI. As I recall, they inflate it by including money that they end up just paying forward to some of the companies they depend on. OpenAI doesn’t count that component. And none of these companies - including SpaceX - have trustworthy accounting.
er1276 8 hours ago [-]
Jesus Christ, the Hetzner example is obviously an example of booking revenue as AI revenue (where investors assume it is generated by Grok subscriptions) vs. hardware rental revenue, which traditionally not valued as highly.
Nowhere does the hypothetical state that Hetzner, an example for hardware rental, has the funding or the capabilities to execute the sarcastic example.
But ok, now hardware rentals have a P/E of 100 or more.
gdhkgdhkvff 8 hours ago [-]
Investors aren’t dumb. These numbers are being reported and the fact that the data centers are being rented out is publicly disclosed everywhere. Investors know full well that the revenue is from the data center rental. No (non-retail) investor is going to see the jump in revenue and think “I better buy up because grok must be kicking ass!”
And yes, if hetzner built a massive AI hyper scale datacenter and rented it out for billions, with the expectation that they would keep building more, they would also see massive PE ratios because it’s expected that their revenue would be going up.
jgalt212 8 hours ago [-]
I think you're low at 100. TSLA has 370 PE, and SpaceX is targeting 250+.
tptacek 9 hours ago [-]
If Hetzner could build that, they would.
Rover222 8 hours ago [-]
He talked with the Anthropic team, and his concerns lessened. It's actually a good thing to be able to change one's mind.
SilverElfin 3 hours ago [-]
You’re falling for the Musk shell game. He just says whatever is convenient at any given moment. FSD. Funding secured. I talked to the Claude guys.
He didn’t change his mind about anything. It’s just that he wants to prop up SpaceX’s IPO as much as he can. Plus if he hits various targets, he unlocks more shares for himself, I think.
tmp10423288442 9 hours ago [-]
The eternal truth: money talks, bullshit walks
thelastgallon 9 hours ago [-]
Musk will buy Anthropic and fix the wokeness. It was done before.
gdiamos 8 hours ago [-]
Don’t put it past Dario to buy spaceX
redox99 8 hours ago [-]
Elon will never sell SpaceX. And he controls 86% of votes.
mrcwinn 8 hours ago [-]
Anthropic is gross for this. The grandstanding about principles and values is intolerable.
throwatdem12311 8 hours ago [-]
Cool. Can they make Claude not absolute dogwater then?
Also possible he sees infra as the future of xAI if he really believes in the value of space compute.
Hard to see this any of this as anything other than a bearish sign for Grok though.
xAI is bleeding money and this compute deal with Anthropic will pay for all of xAI's capex ($25 billion) in 2 years.
This is a confusing framing; you pay down capex with profit not revenue, and there is presumably a high opex cost.
Or is there something fundamental in the way these models get deployed (encryption or something or than legal contracts?) at this scale that prohibits the owners of the infra from gaining this level of insight / access?
The contract can stipulate a penalty at a high enough amount to discourage this behavior.
2) Output from models & intra-datacenter communications can be encrypted if customers truly cared.
3) There is no reason do this, because there are far better ways to exfiltrate data from Anthropic models. Chinese companies are already doing this at an industrial scale where they are reselling Claude tokens for 10-20% of the cost while retaining the data to train their own models. https://www.chinatalk.media/p/how-to-buy-cheap-claude-tokens...
If we look at Deepseek V4-pro, created by Deepseek who Anthropic formally accused of harvesting Claude tokens at scale, it performs the same as Claude did 6 months prior.
If Elon REALLY wanted to do anything like that he would be better off poaching talent from competitors, less legal hell to go through.
Edit: They did it with Colossus and now they're doing the exact same thing with Colossus2. https://www.selc.org/news/xai-built-an-illegal-power-plant-t...
I live about 18 miles downwind of the new Colossus sites, the airport, and lots of truck logistics sites, and a large refinery.
I definitely will be getting 2x exposure to ozone and particulates from both Colossi when they are running full bore. Plus an extra dose of ultrafine particulate with my morning fresh air.
Yes, wouldn’t it be nice to be in Nashville instead with HCA, Oracle, many insurance and financial institutions, and the joy of country music.
As an avid Opus user I am in an ethical Nimby bind. We do need almost any investments we can get in Shelby County TN. I’ll take Anthropic in preference to Grok NOx. And it will be my NOx.
Airplanes by virtue of their mode of operation stay out of the unhappy regime most of the time. Also, engines at/near idle produde orders of magnitude less emissions. Those aeroderivative generators are running at full capacity 24/7.
Dumping exhaust at ground level continuously is probably much worse than the airport. Even if it's a FedEx world hub.
It's the same datacenter? Ran by the same people?
i would expect close to no 100LL burning planes use MEM.
https://poiesic.com/posts/pattern-recognition
Some wild things happening with those, and infrasound. Colossus is shown 4 mins in
https://www.bearlythinking.com/p/andy-masley-doesnt-understa...
He has a full post response here: https://blog.andymasley.com/p/to-be-clear-i-do-understand-ho...
> Jordan is suspiciously lurching to the extremely high energy end of the light spectrum when we know that the low energy end (comparable to infrasound) doesn’t have negative impacts on us if we can’t detect its presence.
Masley spouts the falsifiable propaganda that any photon (light/emf) below ionizing radiation energy can only cause “heat” and can have no other possible harm effects.
Many science-minded people (though more accurately in this case, billiard-world materialists) have become quite militant defenders of this idea (ostensibly fighting off the hoardes of tinfoil hatters and quantum aquarians sensitive to 5g).
This point is very plausible military industrial propaganda. There were numerous studies with evidence (starting from the 60s) such as - non ionizing radiation (eg hv powerlines) might cause lots of cancer, and it’s weaponized (sub-thermal) usage can microwave the brains of enemy spies. THOSE studies have come out in declassified and leaked docs.
Now we have several plausible and serious theories of mechanism for low-f light disrupting biology that lean into quantum biology. While the iceberg of quantum biology understanding is still in its early decades, the mounting downstream evidence of health and medical issues are established public knowledge.
So let's say you're a homebuilder, if I tell you I want a new home and I want to live there tomorrow, you can all of a sudden build it in a day, right?
Electricity use is skyrocketing for various reasons, these datacenters being one of them. There are a lot of countries struggling to keep up with demand. So incompetence? No, probably more like supply lagging demand.
Or ASML and Nvidia and all also are incompetent, because they didn't see demand coming....
They're basically attempting to game the system, politically and economically, to put as much of the cost on taxpayers and ratepayers as they can. This naturally slows things down.
But hey, number must go up, right?
This is a joke. Read it in a mocking tone.
Undoubtedly, it will find cures to all cancers… The ARR and stock appreciation will be amazing. Except the cures will be found long after it has wiped out all humans.
Even if treating people as batteries doesn't make much sense as we are pretty terrible power plants, the message is clear and impactful. It is common for movies to oversimplify things, because they want to avoid having the viewer from being distracted from the main plot. It is tricky, as being too obviously wrong can breaks the immersion. I think the people = batteries analogy is a good compromise. Brains = computers, while technically more plausible would add a layer of complexity that could be a bit too much for a 2h action movie.
Dario has been glorified unnecessarily. He's just like all the other people in the space: not good, not bad.
And keep in mind that when Dario was opposing AI usage by the US State he wasn't really opposing, he was just saying "not yet".
If you shoot someone in the face, it will produce a meaningful increase in local/regional murder, but represent a rounding error nationally and globally.
And I'm sure it's a bonus point for Musk that it goes to OpenAI's most relevant competitor
Everyone else trying to build data centres is really struggling (turns out building physical things is not as easy as writing code, who knew).
So Anthropic have the model but they're compute starved because everyone else they've signed agreements with still mostly have piles of dirt and the GPUs are still in Nvidia's warehouse somewhere.
It's a bit of a win-win: xAI's financial numbers will be massively improved by the revenue using otherwise useless data centre capacity, Anthropic get the compute they desperately need albeit probably paying through the nose for it
And frankly as bad as Altman is from a: if AI is really going to disrupt humanity do I want this guy in charge? Elon is 10x worse. So why would the best and the brightest ever work for him?
You can kick off more model training runs and experiments than your competitors.
You can kick off a $1-2t IPO claiming you are going to capture a large portion of the largest TAM the world has ever seen.
Either way, I doubt he has any ‘real’ advantage in this game. It’s OpenAI and Anthropic, and then everyone else including the open weight models.
Outside of VC money, and circular financing, the only external money coming into ai are into open-ai, and anthropic via their subscriptions and APIs.
Wait, do people consider xAI a frontier AI lab?
As somebody from Hungary: the biggest impact of my mood was that this kind of thinking went back with the collapse of far right there to where it belongs: to a deep hole which is not in front of normal people. Average people suddenly don’t ask illogical questions or answer stupid things because there is nobody who would tell them that they need to think stupidly, there is nobody who tell them what stupid thing they should think that week. It’s marvelous when you get the proof that the whole “stupid thinking” is completely controlled from above.
Once xAI training team “fix” their model, where will Anthropic be then?
Until they finish training, it makes sense to rent the excess capacity.
Or plateau as in it won't solve any Millennium Prize problems within the next decade?
I'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but I genuinely believe a big percentage of AI investment revolves around that (or similar) scenarios.
In the times before you also would rather have very smart people working together instead of one very smart dude alone even if he had an identical twin.
(I'm not denying it could happen next year for all we know. But we simply don't know, and from what I hear from researchers the breadth of ideas we've tried are still small)
I’d hoped Anthropic would steer clear of blatantly unethical practices but here they go in bed with that guy and his horribly damaging data center.
Europe needs to focus more on Europe and less US politics.
Grok could easily be powered by Claude in just a few weeks engineering time.
SpaceX S-1
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48213933
But booking outrageous rental fees as fake AI revenue ahead of the SpaceX IPO apparently takes precedence.
He tried to steal the OpenAI charity, then started complaining about someone else stealing the OpenAI charity when he failed to do it.
He attacks European democracies about free speech, but is a compliant little censor for Turkey, India and other non-European countries.
This is all real revenue, real spend, real usage.
Hetzner just aren't at this scale. Not even close. If they wanted to get into this business - first, they're late. Second, it's at a scale of ~10x of their total lifetime datacenter buildout. Third, they'd need to change their business to being one that is debt fronted.
xAI have proven out that being able to deploy compute is a very viable business (and difficult to pull off)
At some point AI cynicism clashes with reality, it must be exhausting maintaining it.
[0] https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/mind-blowing-growth-is-about-to-...
[1] https://www.wired.com/story/spacex-ipo-anthropic-compute-fin...
Nowhere does the hypothetical state that Hetzner, an example for hardware rental, has the funding or the capabilities to execute the sarcastic example.
But ok, now hardware rentals have a P/E of 100 or more.
And yes, if hetzner built a massive AI hyper scale datacenter and rented it out for billions, with the expectation that they would keep building more, they would also see massive PE ratios because it’s expected that their revenue would be going up.
He didn’t change his mind about anything. It’s just that he wants to prop up SpaceX’s IPO as much as he can. Plus if he hits various targets, he unlocks more shares for himself, I think.